Trademark的时尚“配方”
----Pookie Burch & Louisa Burch
作者：杨荣彪
在很多人眼里，创作的过程是个不断把两个东西拼凑在一起的过程，直到达到理想效果为止，而且最终结果永远不是刚开始想象的那样。我们对世界的理解几乎完全依靠两者之间创造出的意义—--母亲与自己、外界与自己、脑与身体—--以至于世界上似乎没有一件东西能够脱离环境完全独立存在。我们很自然地被两个东西之间的关系吸引，不是因为它们各自有多特殊，而是因为它们之间神秘的引力能让我们从不同的角度思考自己和外界的关系，从而更加了解自己。
纽约配饰品牌Trademark由Louisa Burch和Pookie Burch姐妹俩于2014年创立。我们的采访地点在她们的曼哈顿公寓里，我带着Trademark品牌暗藏的各种有意思的“两者”话题，抛弃任何主观的猜测和期望，试图让Burch姐妹为我们解读她们的思考和创作过程。我发现这样谈论时尚，结果往往与时尚无关，但是反过来再看时尚，时尚不再一样。
Y: 杨荣彪
P: Pookie Burch
L: Louisa Burch
Y: 我刚开始从你们的Instgram账户的第一页翻到最后一页，一直在你们的品牌形象中寻找能够代表你们姐妹俩的东西，直到我看到你们最开始发的几张图片，由两张图片重叠构成的，让我联想到此期杂志的主题“两者”，因为我们想要用图片探讨的就是两个人或者两件物品之间的关系。
P: 你能注意到那几张图真的挺好，因为如果你看我们Logo “Trademark”的结构，其实就是两个正方形重叠构成的结构，所以我们用这个想法和比例做出了最开始的几张宣传图，我们当时想用灵感图做些东西出来给大家看。
我们的第一个系列受一个叫Nicholas Nixon的摄影师的启发。他曾经用40年的时间，在每年固定的时候，给他的妻子和妻子的三姐妹拍合照。她们大概18岁时他就开始了这个项目，我不太确定他现在还有没有在做。我们创品牌时就在看这组照片，看这四个女人几十年内的着装。我们俩也是姐妹，所以觉得这个灵感挺酷的。我们还看了些1950年代的北部加州的风景照，觉得挺漂亮的，也就是后面这张照片的来源。
Y: 你希望让它们之间产生联系和某些新的意义吗？
P: 不完全是一种直接的关系，而更像是，如果你把两张照片拼起来它们会给人一种……
L: 对，它们一起会自然给你一种每张照片单独不具备的感觉。我们想要通过这种简单的拼贴把它们分别的故事融合我们品牌自己的故事，这样就不只是一张张漂亮的图片了。刚创品牌时，我们想低调点，做一些类似心情版的，有关品牌整体感觉的细腻的图片，并且那种结构跟Logo有关。
Y: 你如何找到这些图片的？
P: 有些从书里来，有些在Tumblr上面看到的。
Y: 这些图片看起来都挺少见的，不像是网上会看到的。你经常从回忆中寻找灵感吗？比如你已经知道一些摄影师的作品，然后觉得适合用来启发一个新系列。还是你会去随意寻找灵感？
P: 我的专业是摄影，我对摄影也挺有品位，所以品牌刚开始的阶段涉及很多我们都喜欢的摄影师的风格。
L: 刚开始的时候，也许摄影影响我们最多，然后我们开始留意到家具多一些。我们的灵感走向会变，不过这些元素都一直在雷达之下。
P: 有时灵感会来自一部电影，然后那个电影就成了整个季节的基调。
L: 有时我们会直接用灵感源的元素，有时这个运用和转换的过程更抽象。今天我背的这个包，我们第一个系列里的，就是参考了家具里的雕塑感，所以有时是受一些抽象的形状启发，不一定是挪用灵感里的东西。
Y: 我知道你们现在不再做服装系列，只做珠宝，不过你在为珠宝系列做调研时，你还会有习惯构思一种女性形象和她的着装吗？
P: 我觉得大家愿意觉得我们会这样想。其实我们之前做旗舰店时，那家店就是我们理想中的“Trademark女性”。
Y: 你现在最受哪个女性人物所启发？
P: 我非常喜欢Jane Goodall（一位人类学家和环境保护主义者）。
L: 她从最开始就是我们品牌的主要灵感。她最能代表那种“Trademark女性”，但是这么说其实挺荒唐的，因为她也许根本不会买我们家的东西。把Jane形容成我们品牌的形象大使真的很没道理，但是她的确是Trademark风格的来源。
L: 这也是为什么我们喜欢她，恰好是因为她不会买我们的东西，她是反时尚的，她喜欢任何除了时尚的东西。
P: 我们却也挺像她，关心濒危物种和环境保护。
L: 我们在构思品牌时， “Trademark”（商标）这个名字来自于一个概念：就是某件东西穿在某个人身上像她的“亲笔签名”。它还有个“制服/工作服”的概念，就是好像那个人给自己做了一套属于自己的制服。所以当我们在关注Jane的时候，她给人的感觉是：她身上穿的衣服是她在世界上最不关心的东西。她如此专注于手头的工作，以至于她根本不屑自己穿什么。但是周围的人看着她在穿的东西，却又感觉很有她自己的风格，并且这种风格很启发人。这是我们品牌“制服感”的来源，尤其那种随之而来的轻松、简单、“标志性”的感觉，以至于一个人的风格和做事方式像那个人自己的“商标”（Trademark），这就是我们品牌名“Trademark”的来源。
Y: 听起来你们真的能够从一个人的潜意识出发做设计。
L: 是的，那种感觉是当一个人用下意识在做事的时候，但是同时这种状态又能被另一个人注意到然后延续下去。
Y: 你们的网站上说品牌持续受“美国极简主义艺术”启发，这点从何而来？
P: 我觉得我们刚开始做纽约那家旗舰店时，“极简主义”对于我们来说是多彩的，但是呈现的是很零星分散的效果，所以我们的形象由很多简单的几何图形和简单的服装外轮廓组成。我们当时乃至现在都很关注具有极简风格的美国艺术家。
L: 我觉得我们同时在思考“美国”的意义。我们希望创造一个很美国的品牌，这是我们一直在尝试的概念。比如一个包会非常简单，然后搭配在一起的另一件东西会稍微复杂一些、有趣一些。其实挺像我们家的室内装饰，像这个桌子形状很硬朗，但是周围的装饰物又不那么严肃。我们的品牌也一样，一直不希望它太严肃，总会有玩味的意思在。
Y: 你们是如何确定一个新系列的主题的？
P: 差不多都基于我们那个时候的感受，有时是当时在关注的一张图片，在读的一本书，在欣赏的一部电影，或者在了解的一段人类历史，同时我们也受当下在发生的事所影响，随之我们的系列会变得也许更实用、或者更偏艺术、或者更中性。
L: 我们也会受上一个系列的影响，比如有些款式我们会做些调整、继续尝试，有些款式我们又会选择不继续做了。
P: 这么做的原因也是一种促进和消费者之间的关系，对人们在买的东西做出回应。
L: 在关心销售的同时创意的一面也有，总体上设计的过程其实非常自然，不是说我们有这个产品、有那个产品，然后挑一个做，不是这样的。Pookie主要做每个系列的灵感版面，然后接下来的过程能够很顺畅地进行。
Y: 你认为通常消费者决定一个品牌最终的样子吗？
P: 我认为如果消费者对某件产品没有感觉的话，很可惜，那件产品也许不会继续下去。人们买东西的方式以及他们的喜好，对于一个品牌很重要。不过也有通过个人直觉做出来的东西恰好是消费者想要的情况。品牌和消费者之间有相互的作用。
Y: 消费者的反应有时会让你觉得出乎意料吗？
P: 大多数时候别人喜欢的东西我不喜欢。
L: 有时我们能预知一些东西会卖得不错，有时我们纯粹是为了品牌而做，同时那些东西会卖得不错。现在看来，我们官网上卖的大多数东西都既符合品牌形象，又是消费者想要的。Lane Crawford卖的我们的东西反应的也是一样的事实。不过不同的店，由于它们各自的消费群体，会有个别产品稍微卖得好一些。
Y: 我知道你们也会通过品牌的平台倡导、鼓动大众去参与公益、关心一些社会问题。
P: Louisa和我现在主要做动物保护相关的项目。
L: 我们政治上也经常表达主张，虽然不是参与政治活动。
P: 我觉得现在如果我们要表达政治立场的话，会需要我们每天都发表意见。
L: 对的。
P: 我参与最多的是一个叫做#KnotOnMyPlanet的慈善募集项目，是“大象危机基金会”的一部分。它和Tiffany&Co.在合作一个珠宝义卖项目，是我个人目前最投入参与的。我也和一个叫Animal Haven的慈善机构在合作。
L: 它是一个纽约当地的流浪猫狗收留所。
P: 总体上，我们一直坚持借助品牌宣传动物、濒危野生动物、环境保护之类的话题。
L: 从某种程度上，我们挺幸运的，因为我们不是什么大品牌，关注我们的人已经知道我们关心这些事，所以这让我们能够保持政治的态度。不论是在大选时还是现在，不论什么时候我们都能表达立场，并且这种消息也塑造了我们的品牌形象。尤其在品牌还小时，这样的坚持能保证以后品牌逐渐做大我们仍然能倡导同样的东西。
Y: 你们主要以捐款的形式参与这些慈善项目吗？我知道你们曾经以品牌的名义做过几个产品义卖的活动。
L: 我们个人捐款其实甚至更多。
P: 我们和小一些的机构合作过，我们与#KnotOnMyPlanet还没有正式的品牌合作，因为它们规模比较大，但是之后有机会我们打算安排一次正式合作。不论什么时候，我们看到适合的机会，总会立刻开始先尝试探讨可能性，然后也许针对某些产品面向消费者做个营销百分点的捐款，投入与我们合作的那个慈善机构。
L: 去年Puerto Rico经历了一场海啸，我们也单独捐款支持抗灾和重建。目前我们规模比较小，所以更多的是以个人名义捐款，并且鼓动关注我们的人一起。我们在网上也会发现关注的一些人在用他们的声音号召群众参与一些善事，甚至请大家一起签请愿书。有很多人们可以做的，不一定是要通过购买什么产品，然后其中一部分投入哪个慈善机构。那样当然也行，不过我不想每次都是：“我们想要你买这个，然后其中一部分会成为什么公益。”而更多是让大家自愿参与进来。
Y: 你们觉得今天的时尚品牌应该更加关注公益事业吗？
L: 是的。
P: 我觉得对于一些品牌来说会难一些。从我的经历中，Tiffany和#KnotOnMyPlanet的合作很可贵，他们甚至接下来会做一个更大的濒危物种的公益倡议。他们在全世界的号召力真的很大。对于一些品牌来说能做到那样当然很难，不过有人能够在那方面成功很不错。而且不一定每个人都愿意投入公益事业，或者也许根本不知道怎么开展。
Y: 从我的角度，一个品牌跟大众展示它慈善的一面是很合逻辑的事情，因为这样消费者就知道这个品牌关心这些事情，为什么这种正面的行为不受到每一个品牌的欢迎？
L: 我觉得是因为有些品牌……
P: 怕失去他们的客户……
L: 嗯尤其大品牌拥有更多样的客户，他们会怕疏远一部分消费者。
Y: 你们自己如何正式或者非正式地开始关爱或者援救动物的？
P: 我们做品牌之前就一直很爱动物，一直。我们从领养开始的。
L: 我记得援救过一只在街上的小狗，被主人绑起来后遗弃在大街上，我们看见后就把它带回家了
P: 我一直认识这个叫Daphne Sheldrick的动物保护专家，她是在这家叫David Sheldrick Wildlife Trust的慈善机构工作的，建立了很多野生大象保护区。我是通过#KnotOnMyPlanet认识到他们的，所以这个兴趣很自然地发展下去。
L: 我们之后也会和他们一起合作。
P: 现在主要是人际上的往来，还没到品牌合作的层面。
Y: 我想听听你们更广泛地评价一下今天的时尚产业，你觉得它怎样在变化？
L: 我觉得它变化非常大。
P: 而且一直变化很快。
L: 我觉得产业变化对小品牌很有利，因为它们能通过一些新的平台像Instagram和消费者建立联系，今天的消费者又喜欢小众的有趣的品牌。但是这又带来了一些挑战，因为小品牌间会开始竞争，又要跟大品牌和快时尚品牌竞争，所以当那么多不同的产品给消费者选择时，我们就要保证产品要出发于品牌形象，要考虑周全，才能吸引别人的注意，因为关注度是我们最终需要的。
Y: 你们对当今中国时尚市场有什么见解，你从中领悟到什么或者你们有什么打算？
P: 我们很喜欢Lane Crawford。
L: 我们在中国香港有店铺。
P: 去Lane Crawford的人好像更加喜欢经典不过时的东西，这点我们很欣赏。
L: 我觉得中国消费者对品质很注重，这点我很欣赏。并且很愿意尝试新品牌和新鲜物。总体上，我们觉得我们的品牌风格和审美能比较好地转换为中国消费者能理解欣赏的。这个世界那么大，谁知道我们的审美在不同国家的文化中如何转换过去，不过我们发现消费者都能够和Trademark产生共鸣。
Y: 你们在Trademark的工作如何？是否让你感到开心充足？
L: 对于我来说，是当顾客表示他们被产品打动时，说喜欢我们的包装、客服、之类的，那么我也被她们打动。
P: 对我来说，人们注意到一些我注意不到的关于Trademark的细节会让我很开心，比如你开始说的我们Instagram最开始发的几张图，或者有人会注意到一些我们做的小的摄影项目，比如说把衣服穿在狗身上的那个摄影系列。人们喜欢我们做的东西，我就感觉很开心，反而跟产品不太有关，而是大家对品牌想传达的信息的反应或者共鸣。
Y: 请Trademark姐妹们各自分享一下对方在Trademark日日夜夜的工作时展现出来的特质。
P: 我的妹妹非常尽心尽力。她非常诚实，绝对不会撒谎。她非常努力，比我努力多了。她什么都能学，真的任何东西，任何做生意需要的技能，她能用普通人三分之一的时间学完。说些好听的，Louisa。
L: 我经常跟别人说我下定决心做这个品牌的原因是Pookie的创造力。甚至在我们还小的时候，她总能把任何美的东西画龙点睛，她会注意到别人注意不到的东西，把东西用最有趣的方式展示给别人看，弄完后我一看就恍然大悟：“我超喜欢这个地方、那个地方、那个组合方式。”所以我觉得这是她日日夜夜工作时体现出的特质，她给一个季节做出的版面总是很给人感觉很对又很自然，但是我就做不出来那样的感觉。
P: 我有一个技能，她有三十个。
L: 不。
P: 不，真的。
L: 我的专长很无聊的，一些电脑活而已。
P: 我说真的。我不懂用电脑，我们真的是完全相反。
L: 对，我们真的完全不同。我喜欢技术活。
P: 我对科技一点不敏感。
L: 她则非常有创意，我们算互补吧。
Interview with Pookie and Louisa Burch, CEOs of Trademark
By Rongbiao Max Yang
M: Max Yang, interviewer
P: Pookie
L: Louisa
M: I was immediately drawn to the very first few posts on Trademark’s instagram account (@trdmrk) because the two-window composition speaks to the theme of issue3 “Significant Other,” which is about the relationship between two people or things.
P: I’m glad you noticed those. If you look at the way our logo is written, and if you take the words out, it looks like two squares. That is the idea for the first posts. We wanted to use found images that inspired us.
The first collection we did was inspired by this photographer Nicholas Nixon. He took a series of photographs of his wife and her three sisters over the course of 40 years. He started when they were about 18. I actually don’t know if he’s still doing photography. When we first started we were looking at the ways they dressed. Because we’re also sisters, so we thought it would be cool. We also looked at photos of mid-century Northern California. That was where this picture came from. I just liked this image. I thought it was beautiful.
M: Were there any connections between these photos?
P: I wouldn’t necessarily say there was a relationship. It was the idea that if you put these photos together it would give you an idea of...
L: Yeah it would give you a sense of it than if you see these images on their own. We wanted to turn them into our own story versus just an image that we liked. We wanted to quietly put things out there that felt on-brand, subtle, and had that reference to the logo. Instead of directly telling people it was the opening of the brand, we wanted to share a mood of the season and the moment that we were in. But even today if we look back at those days they would always feel relevant. Our first season was probably something that would always feel relevant for the brand identity.
M: How did you find these images?
P: Some of them came from books. Some of them came from Tumblr.
M: These images look quite rare to me. Did you recall these images from memories and you thought certain photographers would fit into that mood you were in? Or did you more of bump into these images?
P: I studied photography in school. I always liked photography, so a lot of the early images came from photographers we both really liked.
M: Do you usually start a collection based on inspirations from photography?
P: Sometimes. We have in past seasons.
L: Furniture too.
P: Furniture, sculpture, photography. We love colors. Sometimes colors from paintings.
L: I think in the beginning photography was probably more important. And then furniture became more important. We kind of changed the flow of where inspirations were coming from. But all of them were at play.
M: How do you use your inspirations?
P: Sometimes they come from a movie and that movie sets the tone for the whole season.
L: Sometimes literal, and sometimes not literal at all. The bag I’m carrying today is this sculptural piece based on furniture. It was one of the first bags. It wasn’t taken from anything literal but inspired by shapes.
M: What is a female cultural figure you are currently fascinated by?
P: I’m very fascinated by Jane Goodall.
L: She’s also been our inspiration since day one. She symbolizes the “Trademark woman.” We like her because she is the opposite of fashion and she’s passionate about everything else.
P: We also care about endangered species and conservation, as does she.
L: In the beginning, the name Trademark came from this idea of something “signature” to someone. We also have this idea of “uniforms,” this idea of someone wearing a uniform that they create. When we think about women like Jane, it’s like the last thing she thinks about is what she’s wearing. Because she’s so passionate about the work that she is doing, she’s not worried about her outfit. But then you look at it and it feels so her. And she does look inspiring. That’s the play of uniform and the ease of it. The simplicity, the signature element of the “Trademark way” she does things or wears things, is an important part for us.
M: To me it sounds like you’re really tapping into a kind of subconsciousness of a person.
L: Yeah it’s like when someone doesn’t realize they’re doing it. But it may be something someone else may pick up on.
M: Do you pay a lot of attention to the details in your designs? L: I am very detail oriented.
L: We care a lot about all the small parts of everything. They contribute a lot more to how the final product feels when all the details are right versus just how it looks.
M: What inspired the Trademark brand’s “enduring interest in American minimalist art?”
P: I think when we first started doing the store, our “Minimalism” is colorful but also kind of sparse. There were a lot of graphic shapes, simple silhouettes. We were looking at a lot of those particular artists at the time. We still do.
L: I think we also thought a lot about what “American” means. We really liked this idea of creating a brand that is American. There is always a play on it. One bag will be very simple and another will be a bit more fun or mixed-up which I think is very similar to how your (Pookie’s) house is, the table is very sharp and strong but then there’re funny little things that are not too serious. We never think of our brand as too serious, but a little bit funny.
M: When you design jewelries now, do you still refer back to the Trademark kind of fashion?
P: I do, actually. We’ve been doing a lot of pearls lately. And we think a lot about the colors and what the theme of the collection is.
L: It’s the same for bags and shoes too. The boots we made the last two seasons, not tall boots but a little bit higher than normal, were definitely based on the idea that people today wear shorter and wider pants, and what do you wear with that? So it’s from both practical and inspirational standpoints.
M: What makes you determine the theme for a new season?
P: It’s whatever we’re feeling at the time. So it could be one image, one book, one movie, or one time, and also maybe what’s happening, which can affect the collection being more practical, design-oriented, or neutral.
L: And we react to the collection before. Some things you want to keep carrying on and developing. Other times you want to move away from them.
P: It’s also a response to the customers and what people are buying/
L: That’s more product driven versus inspiration. But I think the overall inspiration is just very natural. It’s never like we have this, and this, and which one to go? Pookie does all the inspiration for the season and it just kind of flows. It just happens.
M: Do you think customers also shape what a brand is?
P: I really believe that if a customer doesn’t respond to something, unfortunately, it probably doesn’t move on. I think that the way people shop and buy things, and what they like, is a big part of what you continue to make. Honestly sometimes you make things that you want to make, and it’s also what customers want. But there tends to be a correlation between the two.
M: Are you surprised at all by some of the reactions from the customers?
P: Most of the times I think people like the things that I don’t like.
L: Sometimes we knew some things would be successful commercially. Sometimes we make things for the brand, but they will also do well and that’s really nice. I think what we feel really strongly about are a lot of the things on our own website that are very brand-right and also do very well. Lane Crawford is another store where what does well for them is what does well for us. For different stores different things do well depending on their customers.
M: I know you also feel strongly about advocacy and try to integrate that into your brand’s messaging.
P: Louisa and I right now advocate the most for animals.
L: We’re also outspoken politically even not as active politically.
P: I think right now if we want to speak about how we feel we will probably need to do that everyday.
L: That’s true.
P: I work mostly with a charity called #KnotOnMyPlanet which is part of the Elephant Crisis Fund. It’s a fashion piece. They have a huge partnership with Tiffany&Co. That’s my biggest thing that I work on and what I’m mostly dedicated to. We also work with a charity called Animal Haven.
L: It’s a local New York City shelter provider for dogs and cats.
P: In general, we are consistently trying to raise awareness about conservation, endangered species, and all of those subjects.
L: I think in a way we’re lucky because we’re not a huge brand and our followers and customers already knew that we advocate for these things. So it’s easier for us to be political. And it was very important during the election and even now, whenever we feel strongly about something, we put it out there because it really frames who we are. I think it’s great that we can do it when we’re small because hopefully when we grow, we continue to keep that message.
M: Do you mainly donate to these charities?
L: Probably we donate personally more.
P: For #KnotOnMyPlanet, we as a brand haven’t done something yet with them because it’s quite a big project and a bigger charity. But we’re going to eventually do something. But we worked with Animal Care Center. Whenever we see something that fits we try to act fast and then we can do a percentage of sales with them.
L: We did donate to the Puerto Rico to help recover from the hurricane because that was something we really cared about. At this point, since we’re a small company, it’s more about us donating personally, being involved personally, and communicating the message. I see people who I follow really pushing people to sign up for things and even signing petitions. There are so many thing people can do without them necessarily purchasing something and that money going towards it. That’s always great but I don’t necessarily want it to be, “Oh we want you to buy things and we’re going to donate some amount of money to this,” but rather get people involved themselves.
M: Do you think it is important for fashion businesses like you to care about advocacy?
L: Yeah.
P: I think it’s hard for some. But from my personal experience, what Tiffany is doing with #KnotOnMyPlanet is quite amazing. I think they’re doing a larger endangered species initiative. They’re raising awareness all over the world because they have such a huge outreach. For some people it’s not that easy. But if people can do it, that’s great. I don’t think everyone feels comfortable with it or knows how to approach it.
M: To me it seems logical that a brand would show to its customers that they care. So why some of them don’t?
L: I think it’s ones that are...
P: Scared to lose their customers...
L: Yeah big companies don’t because they have such varied customers. I think they’re scared of alienating them.
M: How did you start advocating for animals in the beginning?
P: Before I started Trademark I loved animals, always. We started with rescuing animals.
L: We once rescued a dog that was tied up, that someone has left there, and we brought him home.
P: Daphne Sheldrick from The David Sheldrick Wildlife Trust, which is an elephant sanctuary, were seen on the instagram that I was reposting all the time. So they’re the two people I knew from #KnotOnMyPlanet. It’s just like very natural.
L: They ultimately wanted to do something much bigger with Trademark.
P: They gave us just a personal interest aside from having a brand.
M: I think we can talk more broadly about the fashion industry. What do you think have changed?
L: I think it’s changed a lot.
P: It’s still changing really fast.
L: I think in a lot of ways it’s great because it’s much easier for young brands or small brands to start in the business and connect with customers on Instagram. People today like to find smaller and interesting companies and brands to buy from. But it becomes challenging because it’s difficult to stand out and make sure your product is lasting and appealing to individuals because there’s so much being done by so many different big and small brands, and by all of these different fast fashion designer. There’s just so much being thrown at customers so we try to make sure it’s very considered, thoughtful, on-brand, and of course getting people’s attention because that’s ultimately what you need.
M: From your experience, what’s your opinion about the Chinese fashion market? What have you learned or what are you planning for this market?
P: We love Lane Crawford.
L: We have stores in China, in Hong Kong.
P: We feel like the customers who go to Lane Crawford are more classic which we really appreciate.
L: I think there’s an appreciation for quality which is really nice. And there’s an openness to new brands and excitement about new brands. In general, we felt that our aesthetics translate very well to the Chinese customers. The world is so big so who knows it’ll translate to every single country around the world. But I think that we found what the customers really resonate with us as a brand.
M: What about the work you do in Trademark makes you really happy and fulfilled?
L: For me it’s when customers are really happy by something, like when a customer let us know they’re so happy by the product; They love the packaging; They love the customer service. Anything that made them excited I really like.
P: For me it’s when people notice the small things that I don’t think anyone noticed, like the fact that you noticed our first instagram posts, or projects that are really small like the photo of the dogs. When people love what we do, that’s very exciting for me. I think it’s less about the product but more about the imagery or the branding that they connect with.
M: Now, share something about your sister’s character that is revealed by her everyday work at Trademark.
P: My sister is extremely dedicated. She’s extremely honest, would never tell a lie no matter what. She’s a very hard worker. She can learn anything. Anything. Anything that you need to learn in a business, she can learn it a third the amount of time someone else can. Say something nice about me, Louisa.
L: I always say that the reason I started Trademark or the reason I decided to do it was because I really believed in Pookie’s creativity. I think even when we were young she always could walk into any place and find the best things or put them together in the most interesting way or notice things you would never think to notice. And once she put it there I’m like, “Oh wait I want that, that, and that.” So I think that’s something I see everyday at work. When she puts together her boards for the concept for the season, it always feels so right but it’s something I can never do. They seem natural but exciting in the same time.
P: I have one skill and she has thirty.
L: No.
P: No, seriously.
L: My skills are boring. Mine I can like work on the computer. P: I mean that. I can’t use a computer. We’re complete opposites. L: Yeah we’re complete opposites. I’m very operational.
P: I don’t like technology.
L: And she’s very creative. We balance each other off.
M: Were there any connections between these photos?
P: I wouldn’t necessarily say there was a relationship. It was the idea that if you put these photos together it would give you an idea of...
L: Yeah it would give you a sense of it than if you see these images on their own. We wanted to turn them into our own story versus just an image that we liked. We wanted to quietly put things out there that felt on-brand, subtle, and had that reference to the logo. Instead of directly telling people it was the opening of the brand, we wanted to share a mood of the season and the moment that we were in. But even today if we look back at those days they would always feel relevant. Our first season was probably something that would always feel relevant for the brand identity.
M: How did you find these images?
P: Some of them came from books. Some of them came from Tumblr.
M: These images look quite rare to me. Did you recall these images from memories and you thought certain photographers would fit into that mood you were in? Or did you more of bump into these images?
P: I studied photography in school. I always liked photography, so a lot of the early images came from photographers we both really liked.
M: Do you usually start a collection based on inspirations from photography?
P: Sometimes. We have in past seasons.
L: Furniture too.
P: Furniture, sculpture, photography. We love colors. Sometimes colors from paintings.
L: I think in the beginning photography was probably more important. And then furniture became more important. We kind of changed the flow of where inspirations were coming from. But all of them were at play.
M: How do you use your inspirations?
P: Sometimes they come from a movie and that movie sets the tone for the whole season.
L: Sometimes literal, and sometimes not literal at all. The bag I’m carrying today is this sculptural piece based on furniture. It was one of the first bags. It wasn’t taken from anything literal but inspired by shapes.
M: What is a female cultural figure you are currently fascinated by?
P: I’m very fascinated by Jane Goodall.
L: She’s also been our inspiration since day one. She symbolizes the “Trademark woman.” We like her because she is the opposite of fashion and she’s passionate about everything else.
P: We also care about endangered species and conservation, as does she.
L: In the beginning, the name Trademark came from this idea of something “signature” to someone. We also have this idea of “uniforms,” this idea of someone wearing a uniform that they create. When we think about women like Jane, it’s like the last thing she thinks about is what she’s wearing. Because she’s so passionate about the work that she is doing, she’s not worried about her outfit. But then you look at it and it feels so her. And she does look inspiring. That’s the play of uniform and the ease of it. The simplicity, the signature element of the “Trademark way” she does things or wears things, is an important part for us.
M: To me it sounds like you’re really tapping into a kind of subconsciousness of a person.
L: Yeah it’s like when someone doesn’t realize they’re doing it. But it may be something someone else may pick up on.
M: Do you pay a lot of attention to the details in your designs? L: I am very detail oriented.
L: We care a lot about all the small parts of everything. They contribute a lot more to how the final product feels when all the details are right versus just how it looks.
M: What inspired the Trademark brand’s “enduring interest in American minimalist art?”
P: I think when we first started doing the store, our “Minimalism” is colorful but also kind of sparse. There were a lot of graphic shapes, simple silhouettes. We were looking at a lot of those particular artists at the time. We still do.
L: I think we also thought a lot about what “American” means. We really liked this idea of creating a brand that is American. There is always a play on it. One bag will be very simple and another will be a bit more fun or mixed-up which I think is very similar to how your (Pookie’s) house is, the table is very sharp and strong but then there’re funny little things that are not too serious. We never think of our brand as too serious, but a little bit funny.
M: When you design jewelries now, do you still refer back to the Trademark kind of fashion?
P: I do, actually. We’ve been doing a lot of pearls lately. And we think a lot about the colors and what the theme of the collection is.
L: It’s the same for bags and shoes too. The boots we made the last two seasons, not tall boots but a little bit higher than normal, were definitely based on the idea that people today wear shorter and wider pants, and what do you wear with that? So it’s from both practical and inspirational standpoints.
M: What makes you determine the theme for a new season?
P: It’s whatever we’re feeling at the time. So it could be one image, one book, one movie, or one time, and also maybe what’s happening, which can affect the collection being more practical, design-oriented, or neutral.
L: And we react to the collection before. Some things you want to keep carrying on and developing. Other times you want to move away from them.
P: It’s also a response to the customers and what people are buying/
L: That’s more product driven versus inspiration. But I think the overall inspiration is just very natural. It’s never like we have this, and this, and which one to go? Pookie does all the inspiration for the season and it just kind of flows. It just happens.
M: Do you think customers also shape what a brand is?
P: I really believe that if a customer doesn’t respond to something, unfortunately, it probably doesn’t move on. I think that the way people shop and buy things, and what they like, is a big part of what you continue to make. Honestly sometimes you make things that you want to make, and it’s also what customers want. But there tends to be a correlation between the two.
M: Are you surprised at all by some of the reactions from the customers?
P: Most of the times I think people like the things that I don’t like.
L: Sometimes we knew some things would be successful commercially. Sometimes we make things for the brand, but they will also do well and that’s really nice. I think what we feel really strongly about are a lot of the things on our own website that are very brand-right and also do very well. Lane Crawford is another store where what does well for them is what does well for us. For different stores different things do well depending on their customers.
M: I know you also feel strongly about advocacy and try to integrate that into your brand’s messaging.
P: Louisa and I right now advocate the most for animals.
L: We’re also outspoken politically even not as active politically.
P: I think right now if we want to speak about how we feel we will probably need to do that everyday.
L: That’s true.
P: I work mostly with a charity called #KnotOnMyPlanet which is part of the Elephant Crisis Fund. It’s a fashion piece. They have a huge partnership with Tiffany&Co. That’s my biggest thing that I work on and what I’m mostly dedicated to. We also work with a charity called Animal Haven.
L: It’s a local New York City shelter provider for dogs and cats.
P: In general, we are consistently trying to raise awareness about conservation, endangered species, and all of those subjects.
L: I think in a way we’re lucky because we’re not a huge brand and our followers and customers already knew that we advocate for these things. So it’s easier for us to be political. And it was very important during the election and even now, whenever we feel strongly about something, we put it out there because it really frames who we are. I think it’s great that we can do it when we’re small because hopefully when we grow, we continue to keep that message.
M: Do you mainly donate to these charities?
L: Probably we donate personally more.
P: For #KnotOnMyPlanet, we as a brand haven’t done something yet with them because it’s quite a big project and a bigger charity. But we’re going to eventually do something. But we worked with Animal Care Center. Whenever we see something that fits we try to act fast and then we can do a percentage of sales with them.
L: We did donate to the Puerto Rico to help recover from the hurricane because that was something we really cared about. At this point, since we’re a small company, it’s more about us donating personally, being involved personally, and communicating the message. I see people who I follow really pushing people to sign up for things and even signing petitions. There are so many thing people can do without them necessarily purchasing something and that money going towards it. That’s always great but I don’t necessarily want it to be, “Oh we want you to buy things and we’re going to donate some amount of money to this,” but rather get people involved themselves.
M: Do you think it is important for fashion businesses like you to care about advocacy?
L: Yeah.
P: I think it’s hard for some. But from my personal experience, what Tiffany is doing with #KnotOnMyPlanet is quite amazing. I think they’re doing a larger endangered species initiative. They’re raising awareness all over the world because they have such a huge outreach. For some people it’s not that easy. But if people can do it, that’s great. I don’t think everyone feels comfortable with it or knows how to approach it.
M: To me it seems logical that a brand would show to its customers that they care. So why some of them don’t?
L: I think it’s ones that are...
P: Scared to lose their customers...
L: Yeah big companies don’t because they have such varied customers. I think they’re scared of alienating them.
M: How did you start advocating for animals in the beginning?
P: Before I started Trademark I loved animals, always. We started with rescuing animals.
L: We once rescued a dog that was tied up, that someone has left there, and we brought him home.
P: Daphne Sheldrick from The David Sheldrick Wildlife Trust, which is an elephant sanctuary, were seen on the instagram that I was reposting all the time. So they’re the two people I knew from #KnotOnMyPlanet. It’s just like very natural.
L: They ultimately wanted to do something much bigger with Trademark.
P: They gave us just a personal interest aside from having a brand.
M: I think we can talk more broadly about the fashion industry. What do you think have changed?
L: I think it’s changed a lot.
P: It’s still changing really fast.
L: I think in a lot of ways it’s great because it’s much easier for young brands or small brands to start in the business and connect with customers on Instagram. People today like to find smaller and interesting companies and brands to buy from. But it becomes challenging because it’s difficult to stand out and make sure your product is lasting and appealing to individuals because there’s so much being done by so many different big and small brands, and by all of these different fast fashion designer. There’s just so much being thrown at customers so we try to make sure it’s very considered, thoughtful, on-brand, and of course getting people’s attention because that’s ultimately what you need.
M: From your experience, what’s your opinion about the Chinese fashion market? What have you learned or what are you planning for this market?
P: We love Lane Crawford.
L: We have stores in China, in Hong Kong.
P: We feel like the customers who go to Lane Crawford are more classic which we really appreciate.
L: I think there’s an appreciation for quality which is really nice. And there’s an openness to new brands and excitement about new brands. In general, we felt that our aesthetics translate very well to the Chinese customers. The world is so big so who knows it’ll translate to every single country around the world. But I think that we found what the customers really resonate with us as a brand.
M: What about the work you do in Trademark makes you really happy and fulfilled?
L: For me it’s when customers are really happy by something, like when a customer let us know they’re so happy by the product; They love the packaging; They love the customer service. Anything that made them excited I really like.
P: For me it’s when people notice the small things that I don’t think anyone noticed, like the fact that you noticed our first instagram posts, or projects that are really small like the photo of the dogs. When people love what we do, that’s very exciting for me. I think it’s less about the product but more about the imagery or the branding that they connect with.
M: Now, share something about your sister’s character that is revealed by her everyday work at Trademark.
P: My sister is extremely dedicated. She’s extremely honest, would never tell a lie no matter what. She’s a very hard worker. She can learn anything. Anything. Anything that you need to learn in a business, she can learn it a third the amount of time someone else can. Say something nice about me, Louisa.
L: I always say that the reason I started Trademark or the reason I decided to do it was because I really believed in Pookie’s creativity. I think even when we were young she always could walk into any place and find the best things or put them together in the most interesting way or notice things you would never think to notice. And once she put it there I’m like, “Oh wait I want that, that, and that.” So I think that’s something I see everyday at work. When she puts together her boards for the concept for the season, it always feels so right but it’s something I can never do. They seem natural but exciting in the same time.
P: I have one skill and she has thirty.
L: No.
P: No, seriously.
L: My skills are boring. Mine I can like work on the computer. P: I mean that. I can’t use a computer. We’re complete opposites. L: Yeah we’re complete opposites. I’m very operational.
P: I don’t like technology.
L: And she’s very creative. We balance each other off.